- What famous dog person on TV has more than 30 dogs he feeds as a pack, requiring them to sit before they get their individual bowls of hand-mixed food?
- What famous dog person on TV has only one dog -- their first dog?
- What famous dog person on TV specializes in hard-to-handle breeds like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Boxers, and Huskies?
- What famous dog person on TV skipped all the hard-to-handle breeds and instead adopted a Labrador Retriever?
Is there a point to this post?
Nope. Just observation.
.
24 comments:
Ok, spill. ;O)
The first is obvious, the second, not so much. I can't think of a trainer who owns a labrador (they're not flashy, impressive or imposing on television - and not particularly cute in comparison to some other breeds - and sorry, retrieverman, but the vast majority of them out there today have the intelligence of a peanut).
But do please share the other name... now I'm curious.
I take it back.
Victoria Stilwell has NEVER OWNED A DOG???
Sweet mother of bullshit.
I had actually never heard of her until I caught an episode of America's Greatest Dog and heard her berate a man who doesn't use treats for training using "dominance and fear."
The man responded by literally picking his dog up by the back legs (gently!!) and manipulating her in all kinds of ways, while she stood there calmly. His reply? Does this dog look scared to YOU?
Funny - everyone calls Millan the extremist. And yet here's Brad Pattison who clearly thinks that smacking or throwing a dog is not only acceptable but required to change behaviour - and who feels that dogs who bite do so because they've been fed from the hand, NO treats allowed.
And then there's Victoria Stilwell who feels that if you don't have a bait bag on your hip you MUST be training with fear.
Then there's Mr. Millan. He uses corrections, praise, attention, food, water, treats, drive and access to control his dogs. Whatever works for THAT dog. We don't always agree but I have great respect for him - which is heads and tails above what I could say about the other two.
Wow. One dog. What a frikkin joke.
As someone who owns a pack of dogs I can tell you that I've learned more from watching them interact than from any book or instructor.
At least it's not Paul "Just throw something at the dog" Loeb. His book genuinely scared me. I can barely put up with people being walked by their dogs on headcollars, but if I saw people throwing leashes or their shoes at their dogs, I'd have to admit myself to the psych ward.
Anyhow, I definitely got the first one, and I wondered if the 2nd was Victoria or not.
Whatever happened to that one wise bit of advice for anyone searching for a trainer...something about having some kind of prior hands-on experience before servicing to the public, or putting performance titles on dogs?
That's seriously disturbing.
She was an actress who did dog walking in between jobs. Rumour has it that when some TV execs found out dog trainers just look like normal people and don't dress like dominatrices they chose an actress who had experience with dogs instead.
Rumour also has it that she was sucessfully sued over the first series but I have not been able to confirm this. Shame, as the people who had their dog PTS on her advice possibly might find that interesting.
I heard both of these rumours from proper dog trainers with very good reputations and a lot of years behind them, but until I can find something to confirm either story I guess they have to stay rumours. I believe them both though.
If the second person is Victoria Stilwell then I'm not surprised. She's a joke.
Viatecio - WOW - I'm happy to hear you say that about Paul Loeb. That book has literally haunted me since reading it.
I lend his book out as a joke to clients - as in, just imagine you called me and THIS guy showed up. It's like hiring Jon Katz.
Now, the "throw something at the dog" is not a totally useless piece of advice. I've pitched a pebble or a small stick square at the ass of a dog who was blatantly ignoring my commands. It gets their attention, no doubt, and usually gets the right response - it's not done to cause pain or even discomfort. It's used as a tap on the shoulder. Of course, the perfect response is for the dog to respond to the command itself, and basing your training program on always having something nearby that's safe to throw at your dog is... well, I don't have to spell C-R-A-Z-Y, do I? ;O)
What freaked the bejeezus out of me was was his advice to feed your dog whatever you eat (not against home feeding, just against doing it Paul Loeb style). There's a line in the book that actually recommends feeding your dog apple pie.
In addition, he recommends that the dog not be allowed to associate with anyone or anything until it's fully trained.
This man is creating scores of unsocialized, anxious, potentially dangerous dogs and should be ridiculed, not published.
Back to Stilwell - I wonder if it's any coincidence that her two books are 1) how to train your dog using cookies and 2) how to make your fat dog thin.
I'll let you take it from there.
Thanks for the info, Patrick - not sure how I missed it the first time around. Makes a LOT of sense though!
BTW - have any of you caught Brad Pattison's show? He's based out of Calgary. His show opening brags about turning the most aggressive dogs into the best family pets, and yet the only truly aggressive dog I've ever seen him work with was picked up by it's collar and physically lifted up to Brad's eye view. When the dog fought back, Brad declared the dog dangerous and loaded him into the back of his SUV to be taken to the shelter "to be placed with a family that can handle him" (read: killed immediately).
Let's face it - Stilwell's a moron and doesn't know a dog from a houseplant, but there are much more dangerous "trainers" out there who are just as popular and published as Stilwell.
Viatecio - WOW - I'm happy to hear you say that about Paul Loeb.
I lend his book out as a joke to clients - as in, just imagine you called me and THIS guy showed up. It's like hiring Jon Katz.
Now, the "throw something at the dog" is not a totally useless piece of advice. I've pitched a pebble or a small stick square at the ass of a dog who was blatantly ignoring my commands. It gets their attention, no doubt, and usually gets the right response. Of course, the perfect response is for the dog to respond to the command itself.
What freaked the bejeezus out of me was was his advice to feed your dog whatever you eat (not against home feeding, just against doing it Paul Loeb style). There's a line in the book that actually recommends feeding your dog apple pie.
In addition, he recommends that the dog not be allowed to associate with anyone or anything until it's fully trained.
This man is creating scores of unsocialized, anxious, potentially dangerous dogs.
Back to Stilwell - I wonder if it's any coincidence that her two books are 1) how to train your dog using cookies and 2) how to make your fat dog thin.
I'll let you take it from there.
Paul Loeb's book made me laugh, because if I didn't, I would cry. A training client of mine gave it to me after she read it in horror. I hope his book is no longer in print...
Also, I do enjoy Victoria's show. I don't always agree with her solutions, and sometimes she WAY overcomplicates things, but generally I appreciate how dog-friendly her methods are.
For what it's worth, her wikipedia page does say that she and her family fostered dogs for 10 years (rehoming over 50). That's no small feat. I can think of trainers I'd rather see on television than her, but I don't think she's necessarily completely devoid of experience. Maybe not the most deserving of a show, but on that information, I can't completely write her off.
Sorry, there appears to have been a post burp.
I agree with you Jen -- and to be clear, I have no truck with Victoria Stilwell.
Yes, the show is a little light, and YES she seems to rely almost exclusively on distracting the dog, and NO she does NOT understand that operant conditioning has three legs, but I have seen worse.
What strikes me, however, is the sheer balls of putting yourself on TV as an animal trainer when you have done so little of it.
Amazing. But the dog world is full of instant experts as I noted in a piece back in August where I suggested (see >> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2010/08/ten-years-goneand-ten-years-after.html )
"Pardon me if I might suggest that expertise is not yet won if your first dog has yet to die of old age! "
That might be a good test. Not the end of it, of course. Time does not give you expertise. But it is very difficlt to get expertise without time, and it is even harder if you do not have a dog of your own.
In a world in which scores of thousands of people have trained dogs to a very, very high levels (agility, tricks, hunting, etc.) Stilwell is not the first name I would turn to by a long stretch.
P.
I agree with you Jen -- and to be clear, I have no truck with Victoria Stilwell. Yes, the show is a little light, and YES she seems to rely almost exclusively on distracting the dog, and NO she does NOT understand that operant conditioning has three legs, but I have seen worse.
What strikes me, however, is the sheer balls of putting yourself on TV as an animal trainer when you have done so little of it.
Amazing.
But the dog world is full of instant experts as I noted in a piece back in August where I suggested (see >> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2010/08/ten-years-goneand-ten-years-after.html )
_ _ _ _
"Pardon me if I might suggest that expertise is not yet won if your first dog has yet to die of old age!"
_ _ _ _
That might be the start of a good test.
Not the end of it, of course.
Time does not give you expertise.
But it is very difficult to get expertise without time, and it is even harder if you do not have a dog of your own.
In a world in which scores of thousands of people have trained their dogs to a very high level (agility, tricks, hunting, rescue, shutzhund, etc.) Stilwell is not the first name I would turn to by a long stretch.
P.
Geez, where do I sign up? I can do better than that Victoria woman. But I'm not skinny and pretty anymore and I don't wear boots with stilleto heels.
Seriously, I'd live and die by Cesar's methods. My Abbott is alive today because of him. He hated/feared all men and because I MADE my hubby watch the show the two of them are now great pack pals. (Yeah, I know, Alpha Bitch jokes are legion around here.)
I've seen Cesar exhausted, gentle, elated and bloodied. His work with the PTSD bomb dog should be an award winning training film for any dog trainer. What I great trainer and obviously a great dog lover.
Victoria Stillwell couldn't handle a Jack Russell Terrier to save her career.
Debi and the TX Jacks
Her family fostered and rehomed 50 dogs in 10 years, huh? Five dogs a year? WOW... soooooo impressed.
I rehome more than that a year - and we specialize in the hard to adopt including dogs with anxiety and aggression issues.
I have a hundred times the experience of most trainers with APDT "credentials".
A local APDT trainer just received an award for dealing with aggression out of dozens of positive trainers. Weeks afterwards, when her muzzled dog tried to attack a man walking in the other direction, she admitted that she had never even worked with a client whose dog needed a muzzle and she was way out of her league. Of course, she was still too stubborn to accept my advice that perhaps she should start with showing the dog in no uncertain terms that this behaviour was unacceptable. Instead, she sat in her chair and whined for the dog to stop and come back. I had to intervene.
I do disagree with the suggestion that your trainer should have titled a dog. That type of training is about precision only - I've seen dogs get incredibly high scores only to drag their owners back to the car, barking at other dogs and people the entire way.
My dogs may not have perfectly symmetrical sits or downs, but they perform them on command with 100% reliability regardless of distraction or environment. To me, that's what's important.
I do disagree with the suggestion that your trainer should have titled a dog. That type of training is about precision only - I've seen dogs get incredibly high scores only to drag their owners back to the car, barking at other dogs and people the entire way.
Doghouse, I thought about that after I posted it. I actually do have problems with this piece of advice, but it can go both ways: you either get the nut like you described that makes an incredibly ring-smart dog, or you can get someone who demands that kind of obedience and good behavior both in the ring and outside in the real world. It seems that we both (and most commenters on this blog) are of the latter type. I've never titled a dog other than CGC or TDI, but I'm confident that she's a testament to good training and have had people ask if I'm for hire (to which I have to decline, and give them the number to the trainer we worked with...he's even better than I!)
Most people are not interested in titling their dogs, but I think the advice just came around because someone who knows how to take dogs to a higher learning level can probably work with the basics...and we ALL know that some people can't do either thing!
This post came to mind where, in the comments, I brought up that same thing there and it did get a little discussion (and it seems as though you had a few things to say too!)
Titled dog or not, I think most folks would agree that in a world in which scores of thousands of people have trained their dogs to a very high level (agility, tricks, hunting, rescue, shutzhund, etc.)" it takes a certain level of hubris for a correspondence-school dog trainer without a dog of her own to put herself out there as a TV trainer for the world to watch. And what can we say of the Animal Planet network that greenlighted the idea?
P.
As much as I (usually) like Animal Planet, Victoria Stilwell's show is by far not their worst. That honor, IMO, belongs to the mercifully-canceled "Pet Psychic" program of a couple of years ago. I think that whack-job truly did damage to people and their pets. As far as I can tell Victoria probably does little harm, perhaps does some good, and if the basics are put out there often enough maybe the beginners will glean something of value.
Seahorse
Agreed Seahorse -- Stilwell probably does no harm. Light television, like the cooking shows.
I never saw the pet psychic show --unbelievable.
P
"As far as I can tell Victoria probably does little harm, perhaps does some good"
I humbly disagree.
Tell that to all the families she's been hired by only to recommend euthanasia. How about Buster, the dog she recommended euthanized on the show?
What about her extreme distaste for ANY kind of adversive? In a case featuring a pomeranian she used a compressed air can and other loud noises to interrupt negative behaviour. Her boards went NUTS that she would do such a horrible thing as shake a can a pennies!
Not only that, but she got on the board and while defending her use of sound adversives while dealing with the pom, discouraged their use anywhere else.
You can't take a woman who doesn't believe in ANY kind of force (and I'm not talking about abuse, I'm talking physically putting a dog into a sit position or god forbid a leash correction) or adversive and not think that there will be repercussions.
The "purely positive" crowd uses her as their figurehead, and are the first to recommend "humane euthanasia" when a dog has become aggressive.
Sure, no harm in the short term (aside from fat dogs) but the long term damage of treating a dog like a china doll or a piggy bank is immeasurable.
LMAO - thought you'd get a kick out of this.
http://positively.com/dog-training/become-a-trainer/vsp-trainer-application-request-form/
The last stipulation is my favourite... Must be willing to purchase license.
No shame...
I only saw one episode of the Pet Psychic, quite by accident, while channel surfing. A woman was having a problem because the two "sons" of her ferret were beating up "Mom." Pet Psychic walks into the house and asks the owner, "Which one is the Mom." To which I would have replied, "You're the psychic, why don't you ask them."
That is a hoot Dog House.
As for Stilwell, she's like a carpenter who shows up at the jobs without an essential tool. There are only only three moving parts to operant conditioning, and in her hubris she has decided that the world does not need one. If that's not a warning, then a warning cannot be given.
P.
Dog House, clearly you know more about Victoria Stilwell than I do, so I bow to your greater knowledge. I've never read a word about her and have only watched her program casually. My impression was that she mostly tried to get dogs to behave in the most basic situations, which seemed to have gotten the better of their clueless owners. I figured of she could teach the owners to walk the dogs in an orderly fashion and not have them jump up on guests, she might be providing the beginners with a place to start.
Seahorse
The knowledge is an unfortunate necessity.
I've been training dogs for almost 12 years now, and just "hung my shingle" not too long ago, working for free, for trade, or just for the sake of lending a hand up until that point. Even now I don't do group classes and have a handful of clients - I only take on the ones I know I can handle.
My methods are what H.Houlahan would refer to as "balanced training." Meaning I have no problem giving my dog a cookie, training a behaviour using lures and rewards, and I even use a clicker when we're dealing with dogs and cats who are learning complex behaviours.
However, I also use choke chains, e-collars, prong collars, physical corrections and whatever else is needed for that particular case.
Because of this, and the rabid ferocity of the "+R" crowd, I and trainers like me (ie those who use anything but a clicker or a cookie) have been accused of being cruel, torturous, dangerous and have basically been told that dominance theory is like creationism. Doesn't exist, other than in the minds of the believers.
I keep tabs on these people and their methods so that I can explain to clients that yes, I've read the book by the person they are quoting (surprise!) and tell them exactly why I don't think that that approach would work with this specific dog.
LOL - come to think of it, that's how I ended up with Paul Loeb's piece of trash.
BTW, Patrick, did you take a look a little further on that website? Where they admit that the program is STRICTLY a marketing gimmick? For anyone who's wondering, for $900 a year you can put Victoria Stilwell's name on YOUR dog training operation! Unless you actually have training facilities, in which case it's around $2000.
A year. And it clearly says "introductory price."
What a friggin joke.
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