"The Irish Red & White Setter is bred primarily for the field. The standard as set out hereunder must be interpreted chiefly from this point of view and all Judges at Bench Shows must be encouraged to judge the exhibits chiefly from the working standpoint."
The above bit of clap trap comes from the AKC's web site, and shows how deeply boiled in the oil of their own nonsense they really are.
Here's a thought: Perhaps a dog named for its COAT COLOR might not really be "bred primarily for the field."
And perhaps a dog bred "primarily for the field" cannot really be judged at a Bench Show?
What's next, judging racing car drivers by hat size, or hiring astronauts based on whether they fit into the space suits?
How about hiring female workers by the size of their front racks? Now there's a business plan . . . for a strip club.
I am reminded of the old adage: "In theory, practice and theory should be the same, but in practice they are not."
True enough, true enough.
This lion read a book of theory just before his first hunt.
2 comments:
Interesting comment on naming a dog a colour for the field - reference the "Red Setters" - a setter that is bred only for the field - much the same as the Patterdale Terrier - in the pedigrees the Fell Terriers, Border Terriers are reflected in the Patterdale Terrier Pedigrees along with the Patterdale Terrier - so many Patterdales have a percentage of Fell Terriers and percentage of Border Terriers while being registered Patterdale Terrier. In the Red Setter pedigrees - the pedigrees reflect the other setter breeds and retriever breeds that have been brought in to create the setter primarily red in colour, and have their own registry. And indeed - they did name the breed after a colour - "Red" Setter. Check out the honest history that their club states their purpose and their history in their decisions of what they have bred. http://www.nrsftc.com/
As a terrier buff - you should have done your history check on the Setters. Originally the "Irish Setter" was primarily "Red and White" with an occasional "Red" popping up and being accepted. Then the "Reds" became popular. Using an analogy you should understand as a "terrierman" - quite similar to the Patterdale Terriers - where the tan and grizzles, reds and the blacks are accepted, but currently the blacks are the most popular at the Patterdale Shows. As a matter of fact one of our mutual acquaintances - HSJ of Fults Cove TN has an excellent reg. Patterdale Terrier - red in colour - Ayla - the one coloured pup in a black litter - and an excellent terrier. In contrast to the "Red Setter" - which is a "type" standing on its own merit in the field - the "Irish Red and White Setter" - it the "original Irish Setter" - from the original gene pool of the "Irish Setter" from the late 1800's early 1900's - and was not bred for the "fad of the show ring". Quite the contrary - it was continued for the "love of the original breed". The "Irish Setter Clubs" worldwide recognize the "Irish Red and White Setter" as the original "Irish Setter" and there has never been a controversy over the breed. The decision was made not to do what the Cocker Spaniels have done - the different varieties by colour - instead to leave this original gene pool as its own entity and continue it as its own gene pool not mixing it back into the overall "Irish Setter" gene pool. Originally each breed was created for a purpose - the setters were created to "set" (not to "point"). The statement that the "Irish Red and White Setter" is a newly created breed for a colour is not an accurate statement. The "Irish Red and White Setter" is an old breed. Another analogy you should understand - much as if you found a kennel in England still breeding the old "Black and Tan Terrier" that went into the gene pool of the majority of the original terrier breeds. The "Irish Red and White Setter" is the original that was bred to hunt and to "set".
Keep those terriers digging!
Bobbi
Bobbi -- Check out the other post on red setters put up the same day >> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2007/08/will-not-work-for-food.html Looks to me like you got here via a link and did not see the entire history of Red Setter which I have written out. I DO know the history here, and I would not disagree AT ALL about what you say about the Red and White. In fact, I say the exact same thing.
Funny, though, how the working dogs always seem to exist outside of a KC registry -- and how quickly they stop working when pulled in.
So the question arises: Why do you need to pull a dog into the KC to "preseve it" when it has existed (and worked) outside of the KC for more than 100 years?
As for the Patterdale, it is not a KC dog or a show dog no matter what the Patterdale Club and UKC have tried to do. Very few patts are registered. This is a dog that still comes in a wide variety of colors and is, in fact, little more than a black fell and a border terrier cross. See the history of both Border terriers and Patterdales on this blog.
I do not know a working terrier person who does not shudder at the idea of the Patterdale being pulled into a KC registry. The UKC was the first to do this, but the AKC will be next and a few decades later those registerd dogs will not have what is needed in terms of either size or temperament.
The good news is that white, black, red and brown working terriers (under a wide variety of names) will always exist. But you generally do not go to a Kennel Club show to find them, do you?
Patrick
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