Information on working terriers, dogs, natural history, hunting, and the environment, with occasional political commentary as I see fit. This web log is associated with the Terrierman.com web site.
Tuesday, July 01, 2008
How Many Breeds Already?
How many breeds have been killedoff by vanity, rosettes and cash-for-puppy schemes?
Does anyone, anywhere, who knows what they are doing, go the Kennel Club when looking for a working dog of any breed? .
6 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Yes, if they're looking for a flatcoat ;)
Although I really don't know about the States all that well, but in Finland all retrievers are required to pass at least one hunt test (the tendency trial) in order to become champions.
And flatcoats are still maintaining their dual-purpose status. And proud of it!
Anyone looking for a working retriver would do well to give a pass to a flat--coat in my opinion. The reason for this is simple: a distressingly high percentage of the dogs are cancer bombs waiting to go off, and malignant bone tumors are expensive, generally fatal, and always heart-breaking. EVERY line of flat-coated retrievers has bone cancer in it; there are no "clean" or "cancer-free" lines. If you want a working retriever you can get one that does not carry the genetic load of a flatcoat, and I would advise anyone looking for a retriever to look elsewhere for that reason. The good news is that FCR breeders ARE working to reduce the incidence of cancer in their breed, but the bad news is that they are far from achieving their mission. Progress is being made, but for now this is a breed I would take a pass on. For data on FCR cancer rates in Sweden (as close to Finland as I can get as I do not read Finnish), see >> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1940277&rendertype=table&id=tIV-cjvr71_pg292 and >> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1940277
The answer is "yes", but you'll come up with reasons such as the above as to why anyone who wants a 'real working dog' wouldn't want any of the breeds I am thinking of.
I know people with dual-purpose line Brittanys who exclusively hunt with them, and they get the job done. In fact I'm going to say that's the only gundog with a shred of hope of maintaining dual championships and any semblance of working ability while remaining pretty healthy overall.
Knowing someone with FCRs I am unfortunately inclined to agree with much of what you've said. Lovely temperaments, but at this rate they have the health and genetic stability of some of the giant breeds. :(
For many of the herding breeds -- definitely not all, but many -- dogs with hobby farm working potential CAN be found through AKC breeders. Of course they are not appropriate for huge farms (few breeds other than the BC are, and they're typically incredibly rare) but there is a woman in my area with a hobby goat farm who works the goats with two show-line Shelties and gets the job done right.
I'll give you Brittanys -- the Club has done pretty good work trying to keep hunting at the front or close to it. Border Collies? It's hard to find a breed going into the toilet faster. Remember, this is a VERY new AKC breed. It takes about three decades for it all to go into the toilet, but with Border Collies and "Parson" Russell terriers, the direction and velocity is set.
Most of my sustainable ag collegues get guardian dogs through rescue (It boggles my mind that people buy Grand Pyrene puppies as PETS, but I don't have a single sheep-keeping collegue that actually had to buy one -- rescue is jammed) or, at least here in PA, if they buy a Border Collie, they get a puppy from a collegue that has proven working stock or like myself, they end up with a Border Collie mix from rescue or in the more rural areas, end up keeping a herding dog or retriever that "just showed up" (usually abandoned by an urban person).
In all my years in sustainable ag, I have never heard the words "AKC" pass anyone's lips when either considering adding a dog to the mix or describing one's own dog.
Of course, in sustainable ag, we're used to cobbling things together from leftovers and stuff that other people don't want, so maybe this just tranlates into the dogs we add to our lives, too. We'll pay for something if the research and/or enough of our collegues can vouch for it, but otherwise, we use what proves to be useful around us.
Maybe this will help save the Border Collie, because sustainable ag folks will pay money for a BC either with proven ability or a puppy from working stock.
I agree with you on BCs, that breed is going to hell in a handbasket. Say what you want about the performance folks but we're the only people keeping BCs from going the way of the Collie (as in, 100% useless -- I'd say BCs are at the 50% mark right about now). At least we insist the dog will know a sheep when he sees one, and has the temperament and ability to take direction from a person.
I'm from English Springer Spaniels... there's an idea for a blog post. The breed is totally screwed and there is the tiniest fraction of breeders trying their damndest to fix the problems through imports and being very finicky about the USA show dogs they keep in their lines. I was at a specialty a few weeks ago and a nine-week-old show line puppy had paws the size of my adult girl -- ludicrous. The males look like Landseers with docked tails. They're breeding for bone and massive heads (boneheads?) and the dogs wouldn't know what to do with a duck...
6 comments:
Yes, if they're looking for a flatcoat ;)
Although I really don't know about the States all that well, but in Finland all retrievers are required to pass at least one hunt test (the tendency trial) in order to become champions.
And flatcoats are still maintaining their dual-purpose status. And proud of it!
Anyone looking for a working retriver would do well to give a pass to a flat--coat in my opinion. The reason for this is simple: a distressingly high percentage of the dogs are cancer bombs waiting to go off, and malignant bone tumors are expensive, generally fatal, and always heart-breaking. EVERY line of flat-coated retrievers has bone cancer in it; there are no "clean" or "cancer-free" lines. If you want a working retriever you can get one that does not carry the genetic load of a flatcoat, and I would advise anyone looking for a retriever to look elsewhere for that reason. The good news is that FCR breeders ARE working to reduce the incidence of cancer in their breed, but the bad news is that they are far from achieving their mission. Progress is being made, but for now this is a breed I would take a pass on. For data on FCR cancer rates in Sweden (as close to Finland as I can get as I do not read Finnish), see >> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1940277&rendertype=table&id=tIV-cjvr71_pg292 and >> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1940277
P.
The answer is "yes", but you'll come up with reasons such as the above as to why anyone who wants a 'real working dog' wouldn't want any of the breeds I am thinking of.
I know people with dual-purpose line Brittanys who exclusively hunt with them, and they get the job done. In fact I'm going to say that's the only gundog with a shred of hope of maintaining dual championships and any semblance of working ability while remaining pretty healthy overall.
Knowing someone with FCRs I am unfortunately inclined to agree with much of what you've said. Lovely temperaments, but at this rate they have the health and genetic stability of some of the giant breeds. :(
For many of the herding breeds -- definitely not all, but many -- dogs with hobby farm working potential CAN be found through AKC breeders. Of course they are not appropriate for huge farms (few breeds other than the BC are, and they're typically incredibly rare) but there is a woman in my area with a hobby goat farm who works the goats with two show-line Shelties and gets the job done right.
I'll give you Brittanys -- the Club has done pretty good work trying to keep hunting at the front or close to it. Border Collies? It's hard to find a breed going into the toilet faster. Remember, this is a VERY new AKC breed. It takes about three decades for it all to go into the toilet, but with Border Collies and "Parson" Russell terriers, the direction and velocity is set.
P
Most of my sustainable ag collegues get guardian dogs through rescue (It boggles my mind that people buy Grand Pyrene puppies as PETS, but I don't have a single sheep-keeping collegue that actually had to buy one -- rescue is jammed) or, at least here in PA, if they buy a Border Collie, they get a puppy from a collegue that has proven working stock or like myself, they end up with a Border Collie mix from rescue or in the more rural areas, end up keeping a herding dog or retriever that "just showed up" (usually abandoned by an urban person).
In all my years in sustainable ag, I have never heard the words "AKC" pass anyone's lips when either considering adding a dog to the mix or describing one's own dog.
Of course, in sustainable ag, we're used to cobbling things together from leftovers and stuff that other people don't want, so maybe this just tranlates into the dogs we add to our lives, too. We'll pay for something if the research and/or enough of our collegues can vouch for it, but otherwise, we use what proves to be useful around us.
Maybe this will help save the Border Collie, because sustainable ag folks will pay money for a BC either with proven ability or a puppy from working stock.
Dorene
I agree with you on BCs, that breed is going to hell in a handbasket. Say what you want about the performance folks but we're the only people keeping BCs from going the way of the Collie (as in, 100% useless -- I'd say BCs are at the 50% mark right about now). At least we insist the dog will know a sheep when he sees one, and has the temperament and ability to take direction from a person.
I'm from English Springer Spaniels... there's an idea for a blog post. The breed is totally screwed and there is the tiniest fraction of breeders trying their damndest to fix the problems through imports and being very finicky about the USA show dogs they keep in their lines. I was at a specialty a few weeks ago and a nine-week-old show line puppy had paws the size of my adult girl -- ludicrous. The males look like Landseers with docked tails. They're breeding for bone and massive heads (boneheads?) and the dogs wouldn't know what to do with a duck...
*sigh* I hear ya.
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