Information on working terriers, dogs, natural history, hunting, and the environment, with occasional political commentary as I see fit. This web log is associated with the Terrierman.com web site.
Sunday, September 19, 2010
Dogs Very Far Afield
How far would the dogs run if someone were to pull the trigger on a .12 gauge shotgun?
The setters, maybe, but the pointers would probably be fine, if not actively looking for a bird to fall out of the rafters. As would a ringful of flatcoats, who along with Vislas have a very high number of "dual purpose" dogs, who can go straight from the show ring to the field and back.
And not an hour after I posted that comment, I got a cell phone picture from my friend Alyce, who owned my late girl Heather's Champion/Master Hunter littermate, Bogey, and now owns Dooley, the son of my girl McKenzie (CH/almost Junior Hunter) and littermate to my FayBee.
Last weekend, The Big D, 18 months old, nailed two hunt tests and is now three of four passes from his Junior Hunter
OK, fine, ribbon stuff, you say, but today Dooley did what his Mom likes best, duck hunting, and he came home with dinner.
His Ch. dad's Ch. brother was Best of breed today, and his Ch. mom's sister, the two-time fastest agility dog in the world (beating border collie ass since 2006), earned her MACH 4 this weekend.
Some people really do breed for the whole dog, and I'm so glad that my friend Mary Young, field trainer, cattle rancher and professor of economic, is one of them.
One of the reasons working dogs and show dogs have generally separated into two very different breeds is that it is almost impossible to breed "top of the line" performers in two arenas at once, and that is especially true for a slow-breeder (any mammal) and one that has a small gene pool (all show dogs).
JBS Haldane pointed this out about 50 years when he was writing about "subsitution costs" faced by breeders. This is now known as "Haldane's Dilemma." See >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane's_dilemma#The_Substitution_Cost
Haldane, along with Sewall Wright (of COI or Wright's Coefficient of Inbreedining fame) and Ronald Fischer more or less created the math we still use to today when looking at population genetics.
So yes, you can try to "shoot the middle," but the result, for the most part, is not top of the line in either arena. Is it good enough? It sure can be! Remember I have owned AKC show dogs and worked them. Is it the way to go if you want a working dog? Not generally. My show dog turned out to be less than optimum in two very important arenas (too big and too hard).
It is more than just that fact that you are breeding for different purposes. Often you are breeding for traits which are mutually exclusive. The long soft hair and low set ears that bench breeders work for are terrible for working dogs. Tangled coats full of burrs and ear infections are the result. Just imagine running one of those setters through a field of cockle burs!
The first 'Bench' English Setter I saw. Looked so different from my Uncle's dogs, that I did not even know what kind of dog it was. It was a flake in the training session I was at. NO pointing instinct at all. Just stood there and barked at the quail. My GSP worked OK. He was a high energy field trial dog and needed a firm hand and sometimes some 'long distance' correction. Loved to run, and run, and run. Did point quail well though. I was naive and bought a dog from field trial stock, rather than walk/hunt stock. He was a sweetie in the house though and respected the hawks. That is when my education of the downward spiral of the quality of AKC dogs started. My JRT's were great, too big (in the chest) for most of the digging. But great rabbit flushers. Fun, happy dogs, loved by everyone. And tenacious in the field, even through the most tight brambles. I had to carry quick stop to stop the bleeding in their ears from thorn scratches. One would yelp at the thorns, then just keep on pile-driving in the brush towards the rabbits.
6 comments:
The setters, maybe, but the pointers would probably be fine, if not actively looking for a bird to fall out of the rafters. As would a ringful of flatcoats, who along with Vislas have a very high number of "dual purpose" dogs, who can go straight from the show ring to the field and back.
And enjoy every minute, no matter where they are.
And not an hour after I posted that comment, I got a cell phone picture from my friend Alyce, who owned my late girl Heather's Champion/Master Hunter littermate, Bogey, and now owns Dooley, the son of my girl McKenzie (CH/almost Junior Hunter) and littermate to my FayBee.
Last weekend, The Big D, 18 months old, nailed two hunt tests and is now three of four passes from his Junior Hunter
OK, fine, ribbon stuff, you say, but today Dooley did what his Mom likes best, duck hunting, and he came home with dinner.
His Ch. dad's Ch. brother was Best of breed today, and his Ch. mom's sister, the two-time fastest agility dog in the world (beating border collie ass since 2006), earned her MACH 4 this weekend.
Some people really do breed for the whole dog, and I'm so glad that my friend Mary Young, field trainer, cattle rancher and professor of economic, is one of them.
One of the reasons working dogs and show dogs have generally separated into two very different breeds is that it is almost impossible to breed "top of the line" performers in two arenas at once, and that is especially true for a slow-breeder (any mammal) and one that has a small gene pool (all show dogs).
JBS Haldane pointed this out about 50 years when he was writing about "subsitution costs" faced by breeders. This is now known as "Haldane's Dilemma." See >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane's_dilemma#The_Substitution_Cost
Haldane, along with Sewall Wright (of COI or Wright's Coefficient of Inbreedining fame) and Ronald Fischer more or less created the math we still use to today when looking at population genetics.
So yes, you can try to "shoot the middle," but the result, for the most part, is not top of the line in either arena. Is it good enough? It sure can be! Remember I have owned AKC show dogs and worked them. Is it the way to go if you want a working dog? Not generally. My show dog turned out to be less than optimum in two very important arenas (too big and too hard).
P.
The competition in flatcoats has traditionally been owner-breeder-handler, and the Best of Breed dogs have been largely overlooked in the groups.
That's changing now, and we have top professional handlers campaigning dogs, and as a result we have dogs doing well in groups.
In the long run, those big ribbons from judges who don't know or care about the breed will go to "showier" dogs, bigger and with more coat.
As that trend continues, we will see this breed split, too.
Mark my word, sadly.
It is more than just that fact that you are breeding for different purposes. Often you are breeding for traits which are mutually exclusive. The long soft hair and low set ears that bench breeders work for are terrible for working dogs. Tangled coats full of burrs and ear infections are the result. Just imagine running one of those setters through a field of cockle burs!
Compare
http://www.fieldbredspringer.com/jamie_2007.jpg
with:
http://www.duiops.net/seresvivos/galeria/perros/Chelsea,%20Champion%20English%20Springer%20Spaniel.jpg
which would you rather clean after a long day pushing through heavy wet brush?
The first 'Bench' English Setter I saw. Looked so different from my Uncle's dogs, that I did not even know what kind of dog it was. It was a flake in the training session I was at. NO pointing instinct at all. Just stood there and barked at the quail. My GSP worked OK. He was a high energy field trial dog and needed a firm hand and sometimes some 'long distance' correction. Loved to run, and run, and run. Did point quail well though. I was naive and bought a dog from field trial stock, rather than walk/hunt stock. He was a sweetie in the house though and respected the hawks. That is when my education of the downward spiral of the quality of AKC dogs started. My JRT's were great, too big (in the chest) for most of the digging. But great rabbit flushers. Fun, happy dogs, loved by everyone. And tenacious in the field, even through the most tight brambles. I had to carry quick stop to stop the bleeding in their ears from thorn scratches. One would yelp at the thorns, then just keep on pile-driving in the brush towards the rabbits.
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