This is the e-collar I use, when I use an e-collar, and the dog does not notice any nick below level 7.
If you do not own a modern e-collar, and have never used one, your opinion on e-collars is less than worthless; it is uninformed bigotry of the most common kind. And yes, I have put an e-collar on my own neck.
E-collars do not train. What they do is proof. If you do not know what those two sentences mean, do not use an e-collar.
Related Links:
** You're Not an ABUSIVE Trainer, Are You?
** A Brief History of Dog Collars
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