tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post6494715017646450622..comments2024-03-26T22:16:26.572-04:00Comments on Terrierman's Daily Dose: Digging on the DogsPBurnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-77382694797185329942007-10-27T22:01:00.000-04:002007-10-27T22:01:00.000-04:00.No one is saying skunking is not serious -- if yo....<BR/><BR/>No one is saying skunking is not serious -- if you had gone to any of the links I gave, or the section on skunking on the main web site at www.terrierman.com, or the skunk toxic shock section in the book, you would see that I am pretty firm about the fact that skunking can be VERY serious and certainly fatal.<BR/><BR/>That said, in my experience people panic too much after the fact, and prepare too little before the fact. Most folks are unprepared to get their dogs out of the ground, do not know how to locate their dogs, do not have the proper tools with them, have almost no veterinary kit with them, do not know how to give their dogs basic CPR, are not physically prepared to dig their dogs out of the ground, do not have mucomyst or steroids with them in the field (and they should), and know nothing about skunk toxic shock (or even that is is the same as Heinz Body Anemia). Then, after preparing not at all for what is predictable and assured if you dig on your dogs very often (i.e., a skunking) they panic and rush off to a vet who does not know his ass from a tea-kettle about this problem. <BR/><BR/>As I have said many times, the trick with emergencies is to prepare BEFORE the *it hits the fan. <BR/><BR/>As for skunks, I have been skunked quite a few times and lived to tell the tale. Because I dig a lot in an area that has skunks, I have also spent no small amount of time researching Heinz Body anemia and Hemolytic Anemia in dogs. <BR/><BR/>Here's what happens when a dog is skunked: Mercaptaps (the active ingredient in skunk spray) go inside the dog through the capillary net in the lungs, and are also absorbed through the skin, where they continue to leach into the blood stream, but much more slowly. <BR/><BR/>Mercaptans are theosufates, and they bind to red blood cells, causing the cell walls to bulge and rupture. This bulge and rupture is called "Heinz Body Anemia" and it is what cats get when they eat onions which also have theosufates in them. Ruptured red blood cells result in a dumping of iron and oxygen and the gums on the dog go WHITE. This is the first sign of trouble, and the thing you should be looking for in the first 20 minutes to two hours after being skunked. If a dogs's gums do not go white, that is a pretty good sign that the dog did not get too much spray in the lungs, and you are probably going to be OK. <BR/><BR/>Remember: If the dog did not get much skunk spray in the lungs, the gums will stay pink. Also remember that dogs NEVER die from skunk spray above ground (i.e. just from skin contact alone) as the leaching of skunk spray into the blood through fur/skin contact alone is too slow to overwhelm a dog if that is all the dog has to deal with.<BR/><BR/>The point here is that checking gum color at the hole is VERY important. If your dog's gums go white or very pale at the hole, you are in serious trouble. If you do not check this important first sign of trouble, the dog may recover a bit but (in a few rare cases) fail a few days later as liver function fails. If you miss the first sign (white or pale gums) you will may end up shocked when your dog has liver failure later on.<BR/><BR/>If the liver function fails, the blood will get dark because the dog is unable to process toxins. At this stage, a lot is going on: the dog's immune system may get cross-wired and start killing off healthy red blood cells thinking they are part of the problem, which is why corticosteroids are given to suppress the immune system. A transfusion may keep red blood cells in the system, but if the immune system continues to kill them off, and/or the liver does not kick in to filter off toxins, the new blood will go bad too. In short, at this point, you may shell out a lot of money and still have a dead dog. You will certainly have a dog that you should never hunt or breed.<BR/><BR/>The good news is that most serious liver problems can probably be avoided by focusing on the WHITE gums at the hole. If you see white gums, you have a dog with a LOT of initial toxin in its lungs entering its blood stream, and flushing the dog with a lot of fluids right away and for the next day or two is "Job One." Gettin water in the dog is important as urination is how the toxins clear the system. If the dog will not drink enough, then you need to hydrate the dog with a few bags of lactating ringers solution. Most folks do not keep this with them in their vehicles, but this stuff keeps forever and costs about $1.50 a unit, and you can administer it sub-Q yourself (no need to find a vein. Mucomyst also helps shed toxins as it is an expectorant (i.e. it help clear the mucous lining around the capillary net in the lungs).<BR/><BR/>As for vet prices, you are in Kentucky, and I am not. A 20,000 square foot lot down here will buy you a 100-acre farm with mansion in Kentucky, and the relative differential in veterinary prices reflects that. If you paid $500 to get your dog better in Kentucky, I am pretty confident that it would be at least triple that price down here. Maybe more.<BR/><BR/>P.PBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-40720005295409679072007-10-27T11:20:00.000-04:002007-10-27T11:20:00.000-04:00Patrick, I think you do an injustice to the seriou...Patrick, I think you do an injustice to the seriousness of skunking. You do understand about what the spray is. Many vets are willing to learn... and there are vets who teach them without charge from far away.<BR/><BR/>Two vets -- one from New Jersey and one from Tennessee who are both experienced in dealing with skunkings contacted my vets to help. Both of these vets have helped other people whose dogs were skunked and did poorly as a result. They both say the severity of the reaction is situational -- they do not blame it on genetics. <BR/><BR/>I think there are lines that are more prone to a bad reaction, however -- all lines will succumb if they somehow get into the wrong set of circumstances.<BR/><BR/>Getting the dog out is of the essence -- no one disagrees with that.<BR/><BR/>Another thing I agree with you, is once a dog gets a transfusion, they are retired from the hunt field. They won't withstand another skunking crisis.<BR/><BR/>My dog's gums didn't go white, and toxic shock did set in. The anemia was monitored by CBC's. My dog crashed 4 days later, and that is typical in a severe skunking.<BR/><BR/>You may want to interview Dr. Doug Tack, or Dr. Debra Calloway to obtain information on skunking. It would be useful for a blog like your's that is well read to have accurate information for others to read. Both of these vets were selfless (and free) when my dog was skunked. My vet charged less than half of what you claim a vet bill is -- and my dog had all the treatment you described, plus a transfusion, plus steroids, plus anti vomiting meds -- that was something they had to get under control with her that I could not. My bill was less than $500, and my dog was at the vets for most of 4 days... and two check ups so far. <BR/><BR/>Rane SessionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-76170029346454667422007-10-26T06:58:00.000-04:002007-10-26T06:58:00.000-04:00.Actually, the gums of a dog will actually go WHIT....<BR/><BR/>Actually, the gums of a dog will actually go WHITE if toxic shock is setting in. The cause of this whiteness is anemia due to exploding red blood cells (called Heinz Body Anemia).<BR/><BR/>Mountain was fine and his gums were fine, as I checked them. It's best to wait 20 minutes and 40 minutes after a skunking to look at gums, as it takes a little time for Heinz Body Anemia to set in if it is going to set in at all. <BR/><BR/>I have been skunked quite a few times over the years (2-4 times a year on average) and have written a bit about the signs of skunk toxic shock, the blood chemistry of skunking, and the treatment options -- see http://www.terrierman.com/skunk.htmand also several other posts on this blog such as http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2006/12/over-counter-skunk-treatments.html and http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/05/why-skunk-stink-lasts-and-lasts-and.html and http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2006/07/skunks-when-you-may-need-to-breathe.html<BR/><BR/>Skunking underground can be very serious, but most dogs get out of the earth fine, and most dogs end up needing nothing more than rest, a bowl of water, and a stink treatment. Of course, the most critical issue is always getting the dog out of the ground, and having the proper tools and the physical ability to really use them to dig in crisis is very important.<BR/><BR/>I am not one to run to the vet when a dog is skunked underground, as veterinarians know NOTHING about the chemistry of skunk toxic shock and can do very little other than charge you a LOT of money for their ignorance while taking full credit for a natural recovery. <BR/><BR/>A favorite veterinary routine in cases like this is to put your dog in a crate for three days while they put in an occassional IV, and check the dogs eyes (always staining, staining, staining). The dog looks fine after a few hours, but the dog is not released because the bill is not yet high enough. They vet may have to "run more tests." The final price tag will be over $1,000 and they will have actually done NOTHING but exacerbate the healing of the eye, while charging you $1,000 for $8 worth of lactating ringers solution you could have put in yourself if the dog needed it at all. <BR/><BR/>If your dog needs a transfusion to stay alive (only 1 in 1,000 do), it's a dog that probably should never be taken hunting again, and it's a dog that you probably should not breed to as the propensity for a dog to go into skunk toxic shock is pretty clearly genetic and related to a weaker-than-normal renal function.<BR/><BR/>Most dogs that are skunked underground die right at the hole, and skunk toxic shock has nothing to do with it; the dog simply suffocates from lack of oxygen underground. Knowing how to give a dog CPR in the field is important, but no one talks about it, do they? <BR/><BR/>Nor do folks mention how to get acetycistein over the counter (Mucomyst) or that it is the only medicine that helps clear toxins from the lungs and perhaps strenghten renal function. The vet won't know that, but you can actually have it with you in your field vet kit; you do not need a veterinarian to get it or to administer it. Nor do you need any special knowledge to start a fluids IV -- just keep a bag of lactating ringers solution in the boot of your car or in your vet kit.<BR/><BR/><BR/>PatrickPBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-9040408925083337192007-10-25T21:04:00.000-04:002007-10-25T21:04:00.000-04:00It's great to read about Smudge and Char, as well ...It's great to read about Smudge and Char, as well as the other dogs. Glad to hear that Mountain recovered well from the skunking.<BR/><BR/>Just a note though -- gums may look fine, but the tongue color on a skunked dog may be off. If the dog's tongue looks gray/blue, get to the vet. Same thing if the dog is wobbly after a skunking. All of these are signs of a worse hit rather than a lesser hit from a skunk. My dog has been skunked 4 times, and this last time was bad. She needed extensive vet care, and a transfusion four days later.<BR/><BR/>Good reading, and I'm delighted that Smudge is with Char. He could't ask for a better home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com