tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post5892728212989857319..comments2024-03-26T22:16:26.572-04:00Comments on Terrierman's Daily Dose: Beyond the Blue Solution of Dog Shelter DeathPBurnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-86841789230189024592010-11-17T17:49:26.385-05:002010-11-17T17:49:26.385-05:00A couple of points:
1. Just because you disagree...A couple of points:<br /><br />1. Just because you disagree with some part of something does not invalidate the whole.<br /><br />2. This is especially true if your core arguements are not very good either. I used to run a major program department for the National Audubon Society, and I have read all theee is about birds and cats. Most of it is pure bunk. Feral cats are no more of a problem for birds than possums, raccoon, and red and gray fox (to say nothing of squirrels, chipmunks, hawks, owls and cowbirds). <br /><br />3. There is no such thing as a truely feral cat. I have walked a LOT of miles in forest and farm, and feral cats are never found more than a mile or so from a house or barn. Most den up in human structure (though I have dug a few from groundhog holes), and most get at least some portion of their food from humans (garbage, leftover food from neighbors, etc.)<br /><br />4. The birds that cats do kill tend to be bakckyard "bird feeder" bird of which there is no shortage. Cats almost never take noetropical migrants (most are live feeders that live high in trees), and do almost no damage to field nesting birds (hay harvesting does the damage there).<br /><br />5. Winograd argues that we need to treat feral cats like wild animals. I agree -- let's make them legal to hunt. As you can see, I am not cat hugger. By the same, token, I am no cat basher either.<br /><br />6. The fact that feral cats are a problem in Australia is only a germane point if you live in Australia.<br /><br />PPBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-53066161775746762802010-11-17T17:31:41.113-05:002010-11-17T17:31:41.113-05:00I have the book and agree with much of it, but I h...I have the book and agree with much of it, but I have a problem with Winograd: he supports the trap-neuter-release program for cats. I vociferously disagree, and it makes me a little suspicious of the rest of his arguments. He offers no explanation or justification, nor have i ever heard one that holds water. I like cats and have one, but feral cats are tremendously damaging to the ecosystem. They kill every baby bird that is learning to fly, ground nesting birds, lizards, etc. IN Australia they have caused wholesale extinctions of small marsupials and decimated bird species like the Lyre Bird. When cat fanatics say "well, that's just natural selection" I want to scream.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15837141927909794653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-76414941949230606962010-07-29T02:23:36.839-04:002010-07-29T02:23:36.839-04:00I'm leery of "no kill" becoming a pe...I'm leery of "no kill" becoming a performance trap and way too much of a slogan. I've read Winograd's book and he talks about how the Asilomar accords kind of make a mockery of the term. You could say that "they" appropriated "no kill" for their own use, which is no less than you expect anyway.<br /><br />We are dealing with some seriously deranged and dangerous pieces of work in the shelter industry and in the animal rights activists who have attached themselves as parasites. <br /><br />In every community there is someone who seems to invisibly control the lowlifes, school bullies, and other thugs. There are people who are willing to put holes in the hearts of the citizens of their cities to weaken them and control them. The attacks on pitbull owners are just a small part of this. <br /><br />This type equates "living" with "dangerous." They always have to take the wind out of someone's sails, knock someone down a notch, suck someone's vitality out so that they are no longer strong and a danger to the prevailing social order, such as it is. They feel endangered by what they cannot control. If you have six tigers they might want you to cut back to five just so that they can make you do something, but you'd better not count on them keeping any promises or treating you fairly once you've complied.<br /><br />This thing has to be treated as the sickness that it is. A lot of the animal control business is set to kill what they can kill.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00024665871872480537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-60986203965367793832010-03-01T09:07:40.845-05:002010-03-01T09:07:40.845-05:00Bev you might want to click around on this blog an...Bev you might want to click around on this blog and see >><br />http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/07/back-in-november-of-2007-i-wrote-piece.html and the MANY other piece on this topic.<br /><br />PPBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-45529602979209270222010-03-01T01:00:48.308-05:002010-03-01T01:00:48.308-05:00A point of clarification-the Human Society of the ...A point of clarification-the Human Society of the United States does not run any shelters. Shelters named "Humane Society of Southern Oregon", "Indianapolis Humane Society" etc have zero to the with any central organization. Some are private shelters, some are non-profits that solicit donations. They have nothing in common except that the term "Humane Society" is part of the name. Some are horrid places, some have great programs. I think this is a point of confusion in many communities.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304889698412368533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-49395576154206990482009-03-24T12:19:00.000-04:002009-03-24T12:19:00.000-04:00Thanks for recycling this post and book review. I...Thanks for recycling this post and book review. <BR/><BR/>I've had good luck (Westie, Patterdale Terrier) and bad luck (Norwegian Elkhound) with rescue organizations. While I am sympathetic to their struggles and I don't claim to have all the solutions, sometimes it seems that they shoot themselves in the foot. I know they want to place dogs appropriately but in some cases, I think it would be easier to adopt a human!<BR/><BR/>I was interested in a 4-5 year old Norwegian Elkhound neutered male. He was described as energetic, crafty, 'talkative', and destructive. Sounded to me like a hunting spitz with not enough to do! I visited him and volunteered to take him for walks etc. His social skills with other dogs were acceptable and I knew that the Trio wouldn't have an issue with him (He passed the 'Tuli-test' and the boys don't particularly care that much.) I failed as a candidate and was DENIED because (1) I didn't have an adequately fenced yard (I live in a townhouse). Ummm even if I had a large, adequately fenced yard I would NOT rely on it for sufficient dog exercise. A large yard does not a happy dog make (in contrast, it makes many dogs prisoners!) (2) My other male dogs were not castrated. Ummm because I show them on occasion and the judge expects the testicles to be there!?!?!?!<BR/><BR/>Soooo, he was returned TWICE and then an Elkhound purebred rescue thankfully stepped in and picked him up. I think of him often and hope he landed on his feet in a decent home that understood his needs. He was a neat fellow. I found it exasperating and depressing.3Laikihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12555606241643348917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-37963365830714871352009-03-23T21:33:00.000-04:002009-03-23T21:33:00.000-04:00Some shelters/rescues DEFINITELY see 'pet owners' ...Some shelters/rescues DEFINITELY see 'pet owners' and 'adopters' more as ENEMIES than people they want to give an animal to. <BR/><BR/>They will make adopting an animal a huge ordeal, have insanely high 'standards', refuse to home an animal if someone does not meet EVERY crazy criteria, and then as they kill that animal that they worked so hard to undermine any chance at adoption for, they will bemoan how all those 'bad pet owners' are the ones truly at fault.Paihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14108169893140762249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-66153029082934779192009-03-23T18:24:00.000-04:002009-03-23T18:24:00.000-04:00When I went into the local shelter here and put my...When I went into the local shelter here and put my name down for wanting a dog that had "hair" because I have allergies. The staff basically laughed at me. Telling me that they don't normally get poodle type dogs in and that it was HIGHLY unlikely I would be able to adopt one. What a positive attitude! <BR/><BR/>Two months later, they got a litter of poodle puppies in, and I was able to adopt one. <BR/><BR/>So much for the shelter never getting poodles or poodle type dogs in. <BR/><BR/>What surprised me was that while I was waiting for my puppy to be old enough to take home, they did not want me to visit him. Why in the world? Apparently they thought that I would be in the way. So you don't want the potentional adopter of the pet to come and visit the animal?!<BR/><BR/>Though one program the shelter did have that I was great. They worked with the local womens low security prison, who helped to provide workers for the shelter. It seemed like a great idea for cheap labor that can do some real good for both the animals and the women prisioners. <BR/><BR/>Anyway I am very happy with my little poodle whom I did get from a shelter! Even if they seemed somewhat determined to turn me off to the idea of adopting from a shelter.sassanikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01887222082299118742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-65248120186929870902009-03-23T17:54:00.000-04:002009-03-23T17:54:00.000-04:00PETA actually has picketed kill shelters... check ...PETA actually <I>has</I> picketed kill shelters... check out the three Penn & Teller's <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0exLa6saV9o&feature=channel_page" REL="nofollow">'Bullshit: PETA' videos on Youtube.</A><BR/><BR/>They're completely oblivious to their own raging hypocrisy. It makes it's own comedy.Paihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14108169893140762249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-75818453537084289572009-03-23T08:28:00.000-04:002009-03-23T08:28:00.000-04:00Excellent book and thanks for posting the summary....Excellent book and thanks for posting the summary. Hopefully it will interest more people in reading the book.YesBiscuit!https://www.blogger.com/profile/13827466504671715047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-27285144781749661652008-08-12T18:48:00.000-04:002008-08-12T18:48:00.000-04:00It's like you've written the Coles notes version o...It's like you've written the Coles notes version of Winograd's book. Thanks much for the summary.<BR/><BR/>I volunteer at a city shelter and I've noticed a lot of the changes Winograd talks about wrt transitioning from a killing shop to a real shelter. The tug of war between the old way and the new way is always there but I think the good guys are starting to pull ahead, at least for now. As was in Winograd's case, the initiative to change at the city shelter came about from the hard labour of a very few determined individuals and that effort continues today amidst a sea of general indifference.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12243247582677457166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-84051836036452546112008-03-12T03:30:00.000-04:002008-03-12T03:30:00.000-04:00Thanks for this post (and the links in it). I've l...Thanks for this post (and the links in it). I've learned so much about this issue lately, that it has totally blown my mind. People are still buying PeTA and the HSUS's propaganda, and animals are dying because of it. It's horrible.<BR/><BR/>More people need to hear this message.Paihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14108169893140762249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-81403000659524687682007-10-07T22:40:00.000-04:002007-10-07T22:40:00.000-04:00I had not -- thanks for the link. Christie does a ...I had not -- thanks for the link. Christie does a terrific job as usual, and I cannot add more but I will anyway 'cause that's what we bloggers do and I already wrote an outline :)<BR/><BR/>A bit from Christie that sums up what this book did for her:<BR/><BR/>"Conventional wisdom tells us ... If fewer pets were born, there would be fewer coming into shelters. ... That is exactly what I always believed, too, for the nearly 17 years I've been writing about pets. And yet, after reading 'Redemption,' I don't believe it anymore."<BR/><BR/>So Christie had her mind expanded.<BR/><BR/>Without drugs. <BR/><BR/>Me too. <BR/><BR/>Redemption is a poweful book, without a doubt. <BR/><BR/>Buy it ya'll.<BR/><BR/>P.PBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-81591906286234969322007-10-07T22:15:00.000-04:002007-10-07T22:15:00.000-04:00Did you read Christie Keith's article on Winograd'...Did you read Christie Keith's article on Winograd's book? See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/02/petscol.DTL&hw=Christie+Keith&sn=003&sc=708<BR/>and also see Christie's responses to some of the comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com