tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post115707311775574156..comments2024-03-26T22:16:26.572-04:00Comments on Terrierman's Daily Dose: A Balanced Trainer for Unbalanced DogsPBurnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-82750134527362915902011-02-10T17:28:35.638-05:002011-02-10T17:28:35.638-05:00Thanks for defending Cesar Millan in such an intel...Thanks for defending Cesar Millan in such an intelligent way. I've watched Millan for years and admired his work. You explained what he only hints at. We all see what he is pointing out but you explain it.<br />Well done.Test Blog 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/17477914075521177777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-41822630173882981632010-04-09T19:34:48.384-04:002010-04-09T19:34:48.384-04:00Cesar is great - I've based all my dog trainin...Cesar is great - I've based all my dog training on how wolves interact with each other in packs, and I've raised my children based on what I learned from observing gorillas with their offspring.Marj Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10655814967792870972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-11975959142059004502010-02-13T09:40:19.652-05:002010-02-13T09:40:19.652-05:00I have somehow managed to train my own dog using o...<i>I have somehow managed to train my own dog using only positive methods in fact took a reactive dog class with a local veterinary behaviorist who ONLY uses positive reinforcement in this class..</i><br /><br />There is no such thing.<br /><br />If you are using R+, you are also using punishment. The two are mutually exclusive.<br /><br />Some dogs can learn good behaviors with a MOSTLY R+ approach, but not all can.<br /><br />And the big problem I have is that people like you think all punishment is bad, cruel, or abusive.<br /><br />Corrections are just information. If you see pain and abuse in the thought of corrections, I wonder what happened to you?<br /><br />It is my firm belief that many in the "positive training only" camp were childhood victims of abuse, and they are projecting onto their dogs, and their clients' dogs.<br /><br />And that is not helping anyone.Mailey E. McLaughlin, M.Ed.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06433597895952071846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-75055110406297295042009-07-16T10:58:19.785-04:002009-07-16T10:58:19.785-04:00Eh...I think that just goes to show how adaptable ...Eh...I think that just goes to show how adaptable dogs are. <br /><br />Lots of stuff works.<br />There's more than one way to skin a cat. I think I'll always use reward based training as a first go-to. <br /><br />Koehler is definitely not for me, I've been pretty appalled by everything I've read about it.<br /><br />As to dogs being coercive with each other...why do I want to do things the way dogs do them? I thought the whole point of training was that things are done my way, since I am ostensibly the one in charge. :)<br /><br />I guess when I first posted I was a little more of a positive-only zealot. Now I can see other points of view but still prefer a positive approach.<br /><br />Thanks for the great blog!Sheynahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441579057262336795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-30530948817375790592009-07-16T09:05:55.607-04:002009-07-16T09:05:55.607-04:00Esmee and Kerrri, I am always amused by the folks ...Esmee and Kerrri, I am always amused by the folks who have clicker-trained a puppy or two and are quite certain they know how to handle a red zone pit bull who has been given free run to bite peopel and dogs its whole life. All I can say is that you will begin to know more when you realize what you don't know now. Accept your ignorance about the various methods that work with really aggressive dogs. You have no idea.<br /><br />And note what I said: various methods. <br /><br />In the end, if you are working with animals, you use what works and if you have only one trick, it will not work all the time. Different animals have different problems and need different solutions. Most problems have several different solutions. I can train a dog to walk at heel half a dozen different ways. <br /><br />It might come as new knowledge to you that before there was "click and treat," there was Koehler dog training, etc. Again, know more and you will approach dogs with more tools. The world is not full of blank-slate puppies and there are more tools to apply to a problem with a dog than a clicker, a bag of kibble, and a bit of philosophy. Most professional animal trainers (not the morons running the average obedience class, but REAL animal trainers), know a lot of way to get things done.<br /><br />Now here's a bit of thought for you to consider: Ray Coppinger is not an expert on dogs and neither is Jean Donaldson. Nor are you or I, for that matter. You know who is an expert on dogs? The dogs are! And you know how the dog train and communicate with each other? Not with a clicker and not with a bag of treats. They train and communicate with play, barks, teeth and body movement. WATCH THE DOGS, and you will find that they are VERY coercive with each other. And yet, they are the experts, aren't they? <br /><br />As someone who has sewed a dog's ear back on after another dog nearly took it off, I can assure you that a choke chain is NOT a coercive tool in the world of dogs. In fact, my dogs see the rattle of the chain as a sign they are going out. Yippee!<br /><br />PPBurnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05781540805883519064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-12939784456313036442009-03-24T13:35:00.000-04:002009-03-24T13:35:00.000-04:00I have to take great exception with what Kerri say...I have to take great exception with what Kerri says about dogs not being pack animals! Is she suggesting that dogs have always been on the planet since the beginning of time and they have always been what we have today for pets?? My god at every basic level of every dog on the planet, dogs ARE pack animals! Do you know nothing about wolves! Have you never read or studied them, or thier behaviours. For people who have never owned a dog before EVER, I would actually reccomend they do some research on wolves before they get a dog, to understand, or get an idea of how a pack really works and where dogs actually came from long before we humans intervened and started to change the dog world. There is no such thing as Alpha, Beta, Omega? Someone had better tell the many packs of wild dogs on the planet this! So if this is what she is saying about dogs, then it must all be incorrect about all we have learned about our human ancestors and where we have eveloved from then, right??curtsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116666882643250088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-3475955817877590132008-09-08T17:30:00.000-04:002008-09-08T17:30:00.000-04:00The whole dominance thing that he promotes has bee...The whole dominance thing that he promotes has been called in to question by ethologists and behaviorists and well-regarded trainers.<BR/><BR/>I suppose Patricia McConnell and Jean Donaldson to name only two are victims of fadist training and erroneous thought? <BR/><BR/>I have somehow managed to train my own dog using only positive methods in fact took a reactive dog class with a local veterinary behaviorist who ONLY uses positive reinforcement in this class, with great results. Again victim of fadism, gee how is it that a humane and scientifically supported theory of training could be merely a fad. If it works and builds a great relationship with no stress to either party, yeah it must be just nutty hippy talk. <BR/><BR/>Yet Millan with no basis in fact for what he purports to do…remember it is a TV show, and many things can be made to appear to be fact when they are not…is the one who is right? <BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter is that yes dogs need exercise and they need affection and they need to learn what to do and what not to do but I think for most people the objection is that dogs do not need to be manhandled or poked in some bizarre transmogrification of people into dogs. People can outsmart their dogs and its easy to train using only positive methods, it takes a little thought and effort. And the payoffs in the relationship are better than from the one's advocated by Millan. <BR/><BR/>Further I entirely disagree that coercion is called for in order for a person to be a leader, its been proven a million times over by this point in time in positive training classes. <BR/><BR/>I wouldn't trust 90 percent of the dog owning populace to use a choke collar correctly or humanely and that is borne out only by witnessing its misuse time and time again. Most recently in the form of a flexi attached to a prong collar. That's a whole nother issue though...Esmeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16684173982417638659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-74879013517535084232008-09-04T13:48:00.000-04:002008-09-04T13:48:00.000-04:00I do train and sometimes work (hunt) my JRTs. The...I do train and sometimes work (hunt) my JRTs. They have titles in formal Obedience, Rally, Agility, dock dogs, are trial champions etc etc.<BR/><BR/>As a trainer I abhore what Mr Milan does. I spend more time untraining people what they see in that show.<BR/><BR/>I am 99% percent positive training. But even if I do use punishment I don't do it right off. (and yes I have done my share of rehabbing jrts on their way to be PTS for some serious biting issues) <BR/><BR/>If you want to believe dogs are pack animals (which they are NOT if you read coppinger's work) but even so... Dogs know we are not dogs. So to stoop to their 'level' is silly IMO. I superiour because I have the better brain, not because I am the bigger meaner dog.<BR/><BR/>I find it interesting that a man who is big into pack theory as Milan is also seems so lacking in a basic understanding of dog body language. (see Rugaas's stuff)<BR/><BR/>LOL this is the first post I have disagreed on ;) Keep up the good work.Kerrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448872251283532253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-64274896765775372502008-08-27T16:39:00.000-04:002008-08-27T16:39:00.000-04:00Marry me.OK seriously - I am SO glad you wrote thi...Marry me.<BR/><BR/>OK seriously - I am SO glad you wrote this and I think I feel an "I Hate Mark Derr" post coming to join the "I Hate Jon Katz" one on my blog. IMO, this gross over-sentimentality regarding dogs kills more of them than all the choke collars in the world put together.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I just finished reading Barbara Woodhouse's autobiography "Just Barbara" - and recommend it highly. Did you know that she started out her training career breaking wild horses in Argentina?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-6041614147362954632008-07-02T21:01:00.000-04:002008-07-02T21:01:00.000-04:00Thanks for you great article. There is too much co...Thanks for you great article. There is too much commotion and people to allow the dog the transition time he needs..<BR/><BR/>http://www.jackrussellsavvy.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-31241802453106365502007-06-24T02:51:00.000-04:002007-06-24T02:51:00.000-04:00I tryed to google Mark Derr and came to your artic...I tryed to google Mark Derr and came to your article. I too very much appreciate Cesar Millan's training advice. But back to Mr. Darr "Dogs Best Friend". After spending a few hours on DDB webb site today was checking out a photography book entitled DOGS24/7 promising photographs of wonderful dogs, with an "insightful essay" by Mr. Derr. Wonderful pics until I reached pages 80-81. I cry, never have I seen such a mass no. of dogs, 180 Alaskan huskies, in such horrible conditions. It also states in the book they pull 10 hrs a day. Working dogs they are, but it's nothing but greed that keeps them in squaller such as this. I find it sickening that he would in any way have his name associated with this book! I would love to hear from you.Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11825844894120942083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684843.post-76907231278451790392007-06-13T18:58:00.000-04:002007-06-13T18:58:00.000-04:00Great article, I tried emailing you at you're terr...Great article, I tried emailing you at you're terrierman address but it came back undeliverable. I sent a link to your blog in a letter I wrote to many anti Cesar zealots asking for proof that their methods work better then his.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11807782348169520000noreply@blogger.com